Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Roar_Power]

Madge must see the writing on the wall.

He has put some great initiatives in place, particularly assistance with lower grade recruitment.

He will not be around to see the fruits of his labour if the start of 2022 is anything like this season. Our roster next season suggests wooden spoon by a long way...

 

[frullens]

Bottom line

The problem is bigger than the coach
Changing coach isn't going to change anything at the club.

There's no easy fix or one person to blame.
Blame sits on everyones shoulders.

If we want to turn things around, everyone at the club needs to take ownership and buy in.
Board, CEO, exec, coaches, players

I have questions on Madhes game plans and team selections. But I have questions of many if the players attitudes and efforts. I have questions of the CEO and the board regarding long-term strategy. I have questions of the chairman for being vocal and getting involved in contract negotiations.

Blaming and sacking madge is the lazy and easy option. It will make you feel good but ultimately not get us into a better position.

Madge needs more support in the coaching team. I want to see movement here. A john Morris, Sam Burgess, King Henry, Dean Pay.

We are now getting support in pathways.
And sheens is coming. Tick and tick.

I think with the COE close to finished, its time for Pascoe to step down and hand over to new CEO with stronger football club experience.

Let all the above do their thing before you kick out the coach.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

We have a Leadership consultant….

Actually at least two: Tamou and Packer, both specialists of efficient running, while others:thinking_face: take 150m, they teach how to run 35 m per game, invaluable!:thinking_face: :no_mouth:

 

[cktiger]

Forget Madge not attracting players.
We need to throw massive money at any top quality spine players to get the ball rolling.
We tried with Latrell but he didn’t want the responsibility of carrying the team.
Other players have said they didn’t sign because we didn’t have a strong spine… and we still don’t.
Fullback is beginning to look good but we still haven’t got a steady (or proven) hooker or five eighth and Brooks is not the type of half to entice quality players.
Pay overs to build the spine and the rest will follow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t looking to do that now.

 

[jirskyr]

I just read sterlo saying Sheens is going to be Head of Football performance. Is that true or is it, as I read on here, pathways related?
I can't find the announcement of his signing.

There you go

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2021/06/05/wests-tigers-appoint-tim-sheens-as-head-of-football-performance/



"Sheens, who remains the longest-serving coach in Wests Tigers history and guided the club to its maiden Premiership in 2005, will take up the newly-created role aimed at supporting pathway development and planning, recruitment, football administration, club culture and **ensuring sustainability in all aspects of the organisation."**

The buck stops with Tim. His word is final, regardless of boards decisions?

No I think he gives advice in a broad range of subjects without being the ultimate boss of any of them.

Yeah. It's quite ambiguous. He either supports all area with advice, or he supports it all by being in charge.

With respect I don't know why anyone is getting themselves in a twist about what Tim Sheens' role is.

 

[jirskyr]

Ok if Maguire is gone tomorrow as it's a results driven business can someone advise as to how long the next Coach gets to produce results...?

No-one is expecting a premiership, but year on year improvement is required. Each year we've gotten progressively worse.

And that right there is why he should be gone

Year on year improvement is not realistic. They need to be good enough to get into the finals and make the finals consistently.

 

[jirskyr]

who cares if you burn through coaches that just means there has not been one that is good enough to succeed .

What if burning through coaches means you're less likely to succeed?

I don't think some people realise that cutting coaches is as much a negative as a positive.

OK you cut one possible source of failure and install a new regime. Fine.

What about all the players who preferred the fired coach? What about the players who came to the club because of the fired coach? What about the contacts / network / sponsorship / corporate tied into the fired coach?

What about the time required for the new coach to get in, settle in, get to the core of the problem, install a new system. What about the impact on performance of players learning to adjust to a new system? What about long-term training and roster plans now torn apart because the coach has changed?

Maybe getting a new guy in fixes enough issues that the negatives are outweighed, but it's silly to think there's nothing to "burning through coaches". Imagine changing your boss every 3 years at work, see how you would feel about that.

 

[Demps]

Forget Madge not attracting players.
We need to throw massive money at any top quality spine players to get the ball rolling.
We tried with Latrell but he didn’t want the responsibility of carrying the team.
Other players have said they didn’t sign because we didn’t have a strong spine… and we still don’t.
Fullback is beginning to look good but we still haven’t got a steady (or proven) hooker or five eighth and Brooks is not the type of half to entice quality players.
Pay overs to build the spine and the rest will follow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t looking to do that now.

Not many off contract currently.
We're going to need a few to break contracts to come here.

Maybe we can bring a few more back from Super League who aren't completely past it...

Peter Matutia?
Aiden Sezar?
Kenny Edwards?
Korbin SimS?
Albert Vete?
Rhys Martin?
Matt Parcell?

Few players who could do a job...

 

[jirskyr]

Scott Woodward must have the easiest job on earth. Packer - Fail, Mbye - Fail, Reynolds - Fail. Miss JAC - fail, withdraw Mitchell offer - Fail.

Scott Woodward joined Tigers in 2019. All those signings were pre-2019.

And @frullens is right - Woodward analyses players and makes suggestions, he doesn't do the recruitment. For example, you don't need an analyst to tell you Latrell is worth talking to, but he might have some metrics about Latrell that make for interesting reading.

 

[cktiger]

Forget Madge not attracting players.
We need to throw massive money at any top quality spine players to get the ball rolling.
We tried with Latrell but he didn’t want the responsibility of carrying the team.
Other players have said they didn’t sign because we didn’t have a strong spine… and we still don’t.
Fullback is beginning to look good but we still haven’t got a steady (or proven) hooker or five eighth and Brooks is not the type of half to entice quality players.
Pay overs to build the spine and the rest will follow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t looking to do that now.

Not many off contract currently.
We're going to need a few to break contracts to come here.

Maybe we can bring a few more back from Super League who aren't completely past it...

Peter Matutia?
Aiden Sezar?
Kenny Edwards?
Korbin SimS?
Albert Vete?
Rhys Martin?
Matt Parcell?

Few players who could do a job...

None of them Demps - especially Kenny Edwards!
We need to poach some real quality - let the money do the talking.
We’ve got some really good young blokes who need a few stars in their midst that can attract another couple of good players to fill out the team.

 

[Demps]

Forget Madge not attracting players.
We need to throw massive money at any top quality spine players to get the ball rolling.
We tried with Latrell but he didn’t want the responsibility of carrying the team.
Other players have said they didn’t sign because we didn’t have a strong spine… and we still don’t.
Fullback is beginning to look good but we still haven’t got a steady (or proven) hooker or five eighth and Brooks is not the type of half to entice quality players.
Pay overs to build the spine and the rest will follow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t looking to do that now.

Not many off contract currently.
We're going to need a few to break contracts to come here.

Maybe we can bring a few more back from Super League who aren't completely past it...

Peter Matutia?
Aiden Sezar?
Kenny Edwards?
Korbin SimS?
Albert Vete?
Rhys Martin?
Matt Parcell?

Few players who could do a job...

None of them Demps - especially Kenny Edwards!
We need to poach some real quality - let the money do the talking.
We’ve got some really good young blokes who need a few stars in their midst that can attract another couple of good players to fill out the team.

Not much available my man.

My picks would be Tapine and Hudson Young from the raiders.
Bring some starch to our pack.

 

[jadtiger]

Forget Madge not attracting players.
We need to throw massive money at any top quality spine players to get the ball rolling.
We tried with Latrell but he didn’t want the responsibility of carrying the team.
Other players have said they didn’t sign because we didn’t have a strong spine… and we still don’t.
Fullback is beginning to look good but we still haven’t got a steady (or proven) hooker or five eighth and Brooks is not the type of half to entice quality players.
Pay overs to build the spine and the rest will follow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t looking to do that now.

Not many off contract currently.
We're going to need a few to break contracts to come here.

Maybe we can bring a few more back from Super League who aren't completely past it...

Peter Matutia?
Aiden Sezar?
Kenny Edwards?
Korbin SimS?
Albert Vete?
Rhys Martin?
Matt Parcell?

Few players who could do a job...

None of them Demps - especially Kenny Edwards!
We need to poach some real quality - let the money do the talking.
We’ve got some really good young blokes who need a few stars in their midst that can attract another couple of good players to fill out the team.

Not much available my man.

My picks would be Tapine and Hudson Young from the raiders.
Bring some starch to our pack.

Both are solid players and at least Tapine is reportedly not happy there

 

[tee95]

I thought this might be of interest to people in this discussion.

**Football
NRL**
Adam Hartigan — General Manager - Football

Tim Sheens — Head of Football Performance

James Wright — NRL Football Manager and Leadership Consultant

Billy Callaway — Football Operations Assistant and Facilities Manager

Michael Maguire — NRL Head Coach

Shane Millard — NRL Assistant Coach

Wayne Collins — NRL Assistant Coach

Ron Griffiths — Coaching Assistant - Indigenous and Community Programs

Simon Dwyer — NRL Video Analyst

Andrew Gray — High Performance Manager

Matthew Jay — NRL High Performance Coach

Aaron Sculli — NRL Performance Coach

Jess Adams — NRL Sport Science and Innovation Coordinator

Kenny Michalopoulos — NRL Physiotherapist

Daniel Miladinski — NRL Physiotherapist

Dr. Peter Lorentzos — Chief Medical Officer

Mohammed Baba — Club Doctor

Vince Marando — Gear Manager

Paul Tape — Trainer

Caitlin Reid — Nutritionist

**Pathways**
Matthew Betsey — Head of Pathways

David Fauonuku — Junior Rugby League Coaching and Development Manager

Brett Kimmorley — Pathways Coaching Manager

Shannon Gallant — Coaching and Development Coordinator

Ron Palmer — Pathways High Performance

Paul Sironen — Balmain Football Manager

**Recruitment**
Fita Hala — Talent Identification

Scott Woodward — Recruitment Analyst

Thanks for this Cochise

Raises a few questions

Would love to know what the assistants look after.

Robbie as blue shirt should be there

What does Balmain Football Manager mean?
If its referring to Balmain Juniors, is there one for wests juniors?

Where is Ben Gardiner and his team?
I'd like to know how.much cross over with coaching happens between FG and KOE cup

Really need to up the support in the assistants around Madge

Looks like our defense coach is written in invisible ink.

Hooper said on 360 recently that Shane Millard does our defence.

 

[PJ_]

I just read sterlo saying Sheens is going to be Head of Football performance. Is that true or is it, as I read on here, pathways related?
I can't find the announcement of his signing.

There you go

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2021/06/05/wests-tigers-appoint-tim-sheens-as-head-of-football-performance/



"Sheens, who remains the longest-serving coach in Wests Tigers history and guided the club to its maiden Premiership in 2005, will take up the newly-created role aimed at supporting pathway development and planning, recruitment, football administration, club culture and **ensuring sustainability in all aspects of the organisation."**

The buck stops with Tim. His word is final, regardless of boards decisions?

No I think he gives advice in a broad range of subjects without being the ultimate boss of any of them.

Yeah. It's quite ambiguous. He either supports all area with advice, or he supports it all by being in charge.

With respect I don't know why anyone is getting themselves in a twist about what Tim Sheens' role is.

I was just wondering if he was signing on as the boss. It's obvious Madge needs help or he needs to go. Obviously the club has face saved a bit by bringing Sheens back so you'd think madge is safe for now.
It looks now as if the club decides to get rid off madge, they will go with an understudy coach rather than a Bennett/Bellamy if they were keen. Not sure if they would want Tim looking over their shoulder?
I dont know, just guessing. We just need wholesale change and I hope Sheens can start this process.

 

[PJ_]

Forget Madge not attracting players.
We need to throw massive money at any top quality spine players to get the ball rolling.
We tried with Latrell but he didn’t want the responsibility of carrying the team.
Other players have said they didn’t sign because we didn’t have a strong spine… and we still don’t.
Fullback is beginning to look good but we still haven’t got a steady (or proven) hooker or five eighth and Brooks is not the type of half to entice quality players.
Pay overs to build the spine and the rest will follow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t looking to do that now.

Not many off contract currently.
We're going to need a few to break contracts to come here.

Maybe we can bring a few more back from Super League who aren't completely past it...

Peter Matutia?
Aiden Sezar?
Kenny Edwards?
Korbin SimS?
Albert Vete?
Rhys Martin?
Matt Parcell?

Few players who could do a job...

None of them Demps - especially Kenny Edwards!
We need to poach some real quality - let the money do the talking.
We’ve got some really good young blokes who need a few stars in their midst that can attract another couple of good players to fill out the team.

Not much available my man.

My picks would be Tapine and Hudson Young from the raiders.
Bring some starch to our pack.

Agree.
Also Kenny Edwards is a flog. Can't stand him. Even now that he's decided he wants to be a hoppa

 

[twentyforty]

who cares if you burn through coaches that just means there has not been one that is good enough to succeed .

What if burning through coaches means you're less likely to succeed?

I don't think some people realise that cutting coaches is as much a negative as a positive.

OK you cut one possible source of failure and install a new regime. Fine.

What about all the players who preferred the fired coach? What about the players who came to the club because of the fired coach? What about the contacts / network / sponsorship / corporate tied into the fired coach?

What about the time required for the new coach to get in, settle in, get to the core of the problem, install a new system. What about the impact on performance of players learning to adjust to a new system? What about long-term training and roster plans now torn apart because the coach has changed?

Maybe getting a new guy in fixes enough issues that the negatives are outweighed, but it's silly to think there's nothing to "burning through coaches". Imagine changing your boss every 3 years at work, see how you would feel about that.

There’s also a probability that the incoming coach will do the same positional movements to see what he’s got.
I’m all for breaking continuity if it’s not working, but my experience is success can’t be achieved without consistent application of a sound plan over time. It’s always too early to quit.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Scott Woodward must have the easiest job on earth. Packer - Fail, Mbye - Fail, Reynolds - Fail. Miss JAC - fail, withdraw Mitchell offer - Fail.

Scott Woodward joined Tigers in 2019. All those signings were pre-2019.

And @frullens is right - Woodward analyses players and makes suggestions, he doesn't do the recruitment. For example, you don't need an analyst to tell you Latrell is worth talking to, but he might have some metrics about Latrell that make for interesting reading.

Does Scott Woodward analyise the spend on players? For example, If we are buying x number of players from one manager, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a discount? Basically more bang for our buck?

 

[twentyforty]

Scott Woodward must have the easiest job on earth. Packer - Fail, Mbye - Fail, Reynolds - Fail. Miss JAC - fail, withdraw Mitchell offer - Fail.

Scott Woodward joined Tigers in 2019. All those signings were pre-2019.

And @frullens is right - Woodward analyses players and makes suggestions, he doesn't do the recruitment. For example, you don't need an analyst to tell you Latrell is worth talking to, but he might have some metrics about Latrell that make for interesting reading.

Does Scott Woodward analyise the spend on players? For example, If we are buying x number of players from one manager, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a discount? Basically more bang for our buck?

I would imagine a risk management strategy is needed to work around that sort of exposure if possible? We’ve been burnt before, same as Broncos, Warriors and now Knights. The horse trading has to be full of quid pro quo deals that can see you sacrificing pieces, not just pawns.

 

[jrtiger]

Scott Woodward must have the easiest job on earth. Packer - Fail, Mbye - Fail, Reynolds - Fail. Miss JAC - fail, withdraw Mitchell offer - Fail.

Scott Woodward joined Tigers in 2019. All those signings were pre-2019.

And @frullens is right - Woodward analyses players and makes suggestions, he doesn't do the recruitment. For example, you don't need an analyst to tell you Latrell is worth talking to, but he might have some metrics about Latrell that make for interesting reading.

Does Scott Woodward analyise the spend on players? For example, If we are buying x number of players from one manager, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a discount? Basically more bang for our buck?

he basically comes up with a number that is a reflection of a players onfield output from how I understand it. Hartigan put a line in the sand and said he no longer wanted WT paying overs, so he grabbed Woodward to ensure it wouldn't happen again.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Ok if Maguire is gone tomorrow as it's a results driven business can someone advise as to how long the next Coach gets to produce results...?

No-one is expecting a premiership, but year on year improvement is required. Each year we've gotten progressively worse.

That didn't answer the question ...So if the next guy fails to improve..how long do you give them to produce results..?

Less than the two and a half years that Maguire has had.