John Bateman #268

[Vicious]

He's a genuine footballer who plays on the ball as much as you can as an edge player - and creates opportunities with points of difference like deft kicking - offloads and angled running + his competiveness and tenacity!

Averages over 100m per game and makes 90+% of his tackles effectively and with aggression...

Plays injured and for long minutes...

Good veteran team player whose team mates gravitate to...

Yeah - he's crap.

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Edge back rowers from the top 8 teams aren’t concerned about stats, they simply run the ball hard with every carry which creates points scoring opportunities for their team.
I don’t know what you and quite a few others were watching, but JB particularly over the last 12 rounds or so did not run the ball hard once.

 

[cktiger]

Get the blinkers off and watch the game.
Seyfarth run the ball harder than Bateman in every carry throughout 2023.
If you think paying 700k for someone who runs the ball half hearted is good value, then good for you. He made more sideways metres than Nofoaluma and that’s saying something.

He's not paid to stand back and run the ball hard straight into someone ... and has done pretty good in his career to date.
You're not seriously saying Seyfarth is a better player?

 

[Vicious]

He's not paid to stand back and run the ball hard straight into someone ... and has done pretty good in his career to date.
You're not seriously saying Seyfarth is a better player?

Seyfarth is more of a middle forward, so I’m not sure why people are comparing him to Bateman who is primarily an edge forward.
You are right we don’t want Bateman to run straight into someone, we want him to run into holes, get beyond the defence, make line breaks, score tries,
You can’t do that when running the ball at a snails pace or sideways.
Not forgetting hard running edge back rowers are often used as a decoy to create space outside of them. Again this is not possible when your edge back rower chooses to run the ball at a snails pace or sideways.

 

[gregjm87]

Edge back rowers from the top 8 teams aren’t concerned about stats, they simply run the ball hard with every carry which creates points scoring opportunities for their team.
I don’t know what you and quite a few others were watching, but JB particularly over the last 12 rounds or so did not run the ball hard once.

This is the top 8 ladder but using one of their backrowers instead of teams.
Sorenson
Capewell
Loiero
Ford
Fitzgibbon
Wilton
Butcher
Whitehead
Most those blokes are handy footballers and some of them are run a good line. Few of them are tackle busting hard runners. Bateman is as good as any of them.

 

[Tucker]

This is the top 8 ladder but using one of their backrowers instead of teams.
Sorenson
Capewell
Loiero
Ford
Fitzgibbon
Wilton
Butcher
Whitehead
Most those blokes are handy footballers and some of them are run a good line. Few of them are tackle busting hard runners. Bateman is as good as any of them.

He may be as good as them, but his impact on games is awful. He makes a lot of errors and his runs often stunt our attack roll on. What he was good for was not letting bullies intimidate our young fellas.
As for football though, he did not earn his dough last year for mine and is one of the players I am concentrating on this year to see if he improves.

 

[gregjm87]

He may be as good as them, but his impact on games is awful. He makes a lot of errors and his runs often stunt our attack roll on. What he was good for was not letting bullies intimidate our young fellas.
As for football though, he did not earn his dough last year for mine and is one of the players I am concentrating on this year to see if he improves.

As for earned his dough.
His reported salary ranges from 670k to 800k. At 670K I think he probably slightly underperformed but with his other qualities may be considered a fair price. At 800k he is nowhere near value to our roster.
If the argument is Bateman does not provide value for money as a footballer compared to his contract I can agree on that. Given the need to pay overs to recruit though, none of our squad does. I'd say Bateman is the least of our worries.
If the argument is that he is a rubbish backrower who couldn't get a run at a top side as Vicious seems to be suggesting, Well he is as good or better than a backrower in every side.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

Edge back rowers from the top 8 teams aren’t concerned about stats, they simply run the ball hard with every carry which creates points scoring opportunities for their team.
I don’t know what you and quite a few others were watching, but JB particularly over the last 12 rounds or so did not run the ball hard once.

Look at the top 8 teams, list the backrowers and tell me who are these edge breaking forwards not filling the stats sheet. You will find there is more backrowers like Bateman in the top sides than not.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

This is the top 8 ladder but using one of their backrowers instead of teams.
Sorenson
Capewell
Loiero
Ford
Fitzgibbon
Wilton
Butcher
Whitehead
Most those blokes are handy footballers and some of them are run a good line. Few of them are tackle busting hard runners. Bateman is as good as any of them.

100%. People get caught up on the flare style players but forget about everything else. They also forget our side finished dead last, zero attacking flare so all this talk about a big tackle buster is voided anyway by how poor our attacking structures were and lack of quality backs = players just sitting on the backrowers (we saw it with Papa most season).

 

[gregjm87]

100%. People get caught up on the flare style players but forget about everything else. They also forget our side finished dead last, zero attacking flare so all this talk about a big tackle buster is voided anyway by how poor our attacking structures were and lack of quality backs = players just sitting on the backrowers (we saw it with Papa most season).

If I think of the type of player he is describing, Nikora and Martin aside; Fifita, Olakuatu, Koloamatangi are the standouts and not from top 8 teams.

 

[cktiger]

Seyfarth is more of a middle forward, so I’m not sure why people are comparing him to Bateman who is primarily an edge forward.
You are right we don’t want Bateman to run straight into someone, we want him to run into holes, get beyond the defence, make line breaks, score tries,
You can’t do that when running the ball at a snails pace or sideways.
Not forgetting hard running edge back rowers are often used as a decoy to create space outside of them. Again this is not possible when your edge back rower chooses to run the ball at a snails pace or sideways.

Seeing you’re the one who compared them I don’t understand your first sentence.
Bateman has his own style and that’s what he was recruited for.

 

[AL The Tiger]

No one in our forward pack is an issue. Focus should be on fixing the halves and outside backs before we even consider reevaluating players like Bateman, etc

 

[gregjm87]

No one in our forward pack is an issue. Focus should be on fixing the halves and outside backs before we even consider reevaluating players like Bateman, etc

I don't think any one player in our forward pack is an issue. I am concerned however collectively the whole pack is an issue. There is no natural 13. No ready-made back up edge and the bench is weak (besides imo Blore who is leaving).
Additionally Pole appears to be the only one not over paid in relation to what he produces and this trend looks set to continue for a couple more years yet with most signed on long term deals.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

If I think of the type of player he is describing, Nikora and Martin aside; Fifita, Olakuatu, Koloamatangi are the standouts and not from top 8 teams.

Martin though gets into the tough stuff and doesn’t run hard all the time but yes there are some definite punch backrowers however it’s rare to see both the same style. We have Papa and Bateman, could argue Papa is meant to be the punch and Bateman is the alternative style.

 

[Tigerwould]

There’s a lot of talk about our lower grade forwards..Besides Blore….. who’s the next behind Bateman and Papali’i in the backrow?

 

[gregjm87]

There’s a lot of talk about our lower grade forwards..Besides Blore….. who’s the next behind Bateman and Papali’i in the backrow?

Currently id think Sam Fainu whom the talent may be there but wasn't particularly impressive for Blacktown.

 

[Tucker]

I think our pack as a unit underperformed this year.
They showed glimpses of their class that were not converted into wins by our backline, but over the whole season they were not great.
Was it Fox who rated them a C+?
They only won 4 games. It’s hard to argue against it.

 

[Vicious]

Martin though gets into the tough stuff and doesn’t run hard all the time but yes there are some definite punch backrowers however it’s rare to see both the same style. We have Papa and Bateman, could argue Papa is meant to be the punch and Bateman is the alternative style.

What’s an alternate style ?
All edge back rowers should be providing punch. That punch should be transferred to tackle breaks, line breaks and tries scored when earning above 600k per season.
In any case we need he and Papali’i firing and playing with intensity in 2024 if we want to get off the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

What’s an alternate style ?
All edge back rowers should be providing punch. That punch should be transferred to tackle breaks, line breaks and tries scored when earning above 600k per season.
In any case we need he and Papali’i firing and playing with intensity in 2024 if we want to get off the bottom of the ladder.

Again go through the top 8 backrowers and tally up the line breakers and try scorers. There aren’t as many as you think.

Re the salary, I think he is over paid v value but there are alot more players in our side that deliver ALOT less value to there salary at the club than bateman which you don’t go on the attack with regularly like you do with Bateman.

I don’t disagree we need both Bateman and Papa firing to drive success but we also need the halves and outside backs to fire up. They both aren’t close to our biggest issues.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

I think our pack as a unit underperformed this year.
They showed glimpses of their class that were not converted into wins by our backline, but over the whole season they were not great.
Was it Fox who rated them a C+?
They only won 4 games. It’s hard to argue against it.

Our team was a strange one.

I do think our forward pack improved on last season but you can’t say they were a success when we only won 4 games and let in the points we let in.

 

[TonyTiger]

Our team was a strange one.

I do think our forward pack improved on last season but you can’t say they were a success when we only won 4 games and let in the points we let in.

We need to fatten up Klemmer to gain some impact. Currently he’s charging like a tooth pick into a bowl of cocktail frankfurts.
Bateman has more agility.