Psychology.

T

TheKhan

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Joined
Feb 5, 2020
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61
First let me state a few points about me and my storied sporting achievements.

1. I played league until the end of high school and was never the go to talent
2. I boxed after footy for few years again, never shooting the lights out
3. I played soccer in basically 27th division for a couple of seasons

As you can see I was never a superstar athlete nor do I claim to be and this post isn't a flame against the players that pull on the Tigers jersey or the club. However I'm not speaking out of my backside. I understand the effect of not respecting your opposition and the galvanising affect it has on you as a competitor.

The Wests Tigers have a huge problem with psychology both theirs and the opposition.
Every team in the NRL when playing the tigers never drop their heads. They always feel like they can win. This leads to 80 mins of 110% effort. Hard running, hard hitting and pushing the pass with confidence that it will work.

On our side it appears the same to me. Our guys always feel like they can/will lose it. So that hard running stops when the other team get on top, no mater what time in the game it happens. The stinging defence stops because why put your body on the line when you are going to lose any way.
The passes if pushed go to ground because 8 out of 10 times as there isn't any support so why even bother.
We get kids and recruits come in where they have spring in their step for 4 or 5 games and then it hits them as well.

This problem is exemplified in our squad game after game where Api is darting everywhere looking for help and they aren't there. This Club in my eyes has a massive battle ahead not just in balancing a roster around a massively paid five eight but changing the Psychology of every signed player in the entire NRL.

When clubs have to spend x% of their salary cap every year and have a roster of 30 players at a club that is historical battlers. We have to pay overs most of the time for just about every body. So we end up with what we have, a top 17 that is mostly filled with what would be bottom 15 players every where else bar the obvious stand outs.

This post I understand is pointless it wont change anything. like a lot of you I am over it but I honestly don't know how it changes when we now have he current crop of new NRL talent having only ever seen the Tigers be awful. The boost to your confidence making your debut against the Tigers as opposed the Melbourne, Brisbane, Easts, Penrith bust be staggering.

Blast me if you think I'm wrong
 
TheKhan said:
First let me state a few points about me and my storied sporting achievements.

1. I played league until the end of high school and was never the go to talent
2. I boxed after footy for few years again, never shooting the lights out
3. I played soccer in basically 27th division for a couple of seasons

As you can see I was never a superstar athlete nor do I claim to be and this post isn't a flame against the players that pull on the Tigers jersey or the club. However I'm not speaking out of my backside. I understand the effect of not respecting your opposition and the galvanising affect it has on you as a competitor.

The Wests Tigers have a huge problem with psychology both theirs and the opposition.
Every team in the NRL when playing the tigers never drop their heads. They always feel like they can win. This leads to 80 mins of 110% effort. Hard running, hard hitting and pushing the pass with confidence that it will work.

On our side it appears the same to me. Our guys always feel like they can/will lose it. So that hard running stops when the other team get on top, no mater what time in the game it happens. The stinging defence stops because why put your body on the line when you are going to lose any way.
The passes if pushed go to ground because 8 out of 10 times as there isn't any support so why even bother.
We get kids and recruits come in where they have spring in their step for 4 or 5 games and then it hits them as well.

This problem is exemplified in our squad game after game where Api is darting everywhere looking for help and they aren't there. This Club in my eyes has a massive battle ahead not just in balancing a roster around a massively paid five eight but changing the Psychology of every signed player in the entire NRL.

When clubs have to spend x% of their salary cap every year and have a roster of 30 players at a club that is historical battlers. We have to pay overs most of the time for just about every body. So we end up with what we have, a top 17 that is mostly filled with what would be bottom 15 players every where else bar the obvious stand outs.

This post I understand is pointless it wont change anything. like a lot of you I am over it but I honestly don't know how it changes when we now have he current crop of new NRL talent having only ever seen the Tigers be awful. The boost to your confidence making your debut against the Tigers as opposed the Melbourne, Brisbane, Easts, Penrith bust be staggering.

Blast me if you think I'm wrong
Click to expand...
Good post.
Losing has become institutional. The faces change but the results do not.
You also raise a good theory. If most players grow an extra leg against us, then our blokes have to be very good all year just to win enough games to make the 8. The good teams can play average and still win, leaving something in the tank for the finals push.
 
TheKhan said:
First let me state a few points about me and my storied sporting achievements.

1. I played league until the end of high school and was never the go to talent
2. I boxed after footy for few years again, never shooting the lights out
3. I played soccer in basically 27th division for a couple of seasons

As you can see I was never a superstar athlete nor do I claim to be and this post isn't a flame against the players that pull on the Tigers jersey or the club. However I'm not speaking out of my backside. I understand the effect of not respecting your opposition and the galvanising affect it has on you as a competitor.

The Wests Tigers have a huge problem with psychology both theirs and the opposition.
Every team in the NRL when playing the tigers never drop their heads. They always feel like they can win. This leads to 80 mins of 110% effort. Hard running, hard hitting and pushing the pass with confidence that it will work.

On our side it appears the same to me. Our guys always feel like they can/will lose it. So that hard running stops when the other team get on top, no mater what time in the game it happens. The stinging defence stops because why put your body on the line when you are going to lose any way.
The passes if pushed go to ground because 8 out of 10 times as there isn't any support so why even bother.
We get kids and recruits come in where they have spring in their step for 4 or 5 games and then it hits them as well.

This problem is exemplified in our squad game after game where Api is darting everywhere looking for help and they aren't there. This Club in my eyes has a massive battle ahead not just in balancing a roster around a massively paid five eight but changing the Psychology of every signed player in the entire NRL.

When clubs have to spend x% of their salary cap every year and have a roster of 30 players at a club that is historical battlers. We have to pay overs most of the time for just about every body. So we end up with what we have, a top 17 that is mostly filled with what would be bottom 15 players every where else bar the obvious stand outs.

This post I understand is pointless it wont change anything. like a lot of you I am over it but I honestly don't know how it changes when we now have he current crop of new NRL talent having only ever seen the Tigers be awful. The boost to your confidence making your debut against the Tigers as opposed the Melbourne, Brisbane, Easts, Penrith bust be staggering.

Blast me if you think I'm wrong
Click to expand...
Great post!!! And imo 100% accurate.
The problem is imbedded culturally and that’s the fight which needs to be fought.
Rather than writing a new victory song because the old one couldn’t be found, we should have a board member each week addressing the playing group explaining their thoughts on the science of winning and what it means to them and their families personally.
The point you make about the perception of players at other clubs puts some extra weight in our saddle in the player market, but will only improve when we do.
Our fight is with our cultural identity. Fix that and we win games.
 
Hard to argue with any of that really. Breaking the cycle is difficult. Gun players always seem to return against us. I can't help but look at a game like yesterday and think " a hamstring cost us a possible try, a bounce of a ball for Olam cost us another " and those things in general that just never seem to fall our way.

But, then i look at Bula's stupid challenge that was never going to be won, Api being silly enough to fall for it, Staines absolutely horrific decision to come in off his winger to allow Best a free passage down the field, and then..... Naden, bloody hell where does one start with this:

gave away a penalty on a kick challenge, ran out (when all we needed was to complete the set and get a kick away) Passed inside to Hastings (because he was going to run out...again) lost the ball after a linebreak and finally barely got a finger on Best when defending the tryline. That is 5 clear errors from 1 player. Completely unacceptable in any grade of football.

I actually think the team is trying their heart out this year, much more than the last couple, and they are definitely trying to be more physical in defence, but psychologically it would be very deflating working your arse off only to see some brain dead actions from some players continually undermining those efforts by ill discipline.

Unfortunately now with a few injuries and suspensions creeping in, playing the high flying Dolphins last game next Sunday night, followed by a short turnaround with the Cowboys in Townsville in the first game Friday night is really going to test the mental resolve. The bye can't come soon enough.
 
I’ll just try to base my comments on their play this year … although arguably a lot of their issues have applied for years ..

The other team knows that they don’t have to play that well to beat us … the most important thing is that they don’t beat themselves… the Wests Tigers attack is very predictable …hence why they are averaging 12 points a game this year …

How many games you going to win scoring that many points on average ? Not many ,,, As opposition,,, provided you hang in there …don’t give them short fields … eventually the Tigers will give you opportunities to beat them … through their lack of discipline they will give you a dropped ball from a kick or a try from a defensive error out wide … normally the winger or Center rushing up and trying to take an inside man …

The tigers are also easily niggled into giving away dumb penalties … lots of easily wound up players …Naden, Klemmer, Seyfarth .. what the hell was Ice doing tripping that guy ? Could have been sent off..

Their game plan needs to be looked at… looks like at the moment they are just happy “being in the game “ and not actually actively trying to win it ….they need to start games better … come out with a more enterprising attacking style …what happens to them in the last 2 minutes of the first half ? Tries in the dying seconds against Broncos and Knights and should have conceded one against the Bulldogs … something is wrong here… they need to be aware of this and just try to play conservatively and run out the clock and get to half time ..

I could go on forever about their basic skills that appears like are never practiced … short drop outs.. defending and taking them …. attacking kicks that are rarely contested … lack of repeat sets … grubbers into the in the in goal ..these are things that can br practised and improved regardless of the talent levels of the team
 
Furious1 said:
Hard to argue with any of that really. Breaking the cycle is difficult. Gun players always seem to return against us. I can't help but look at a game like yesterday and think " a hamstring cost us a possible try, a bounce of a ball for Olam cost us another " and those things in general that just never seem to fall our way.

But, then i look at Bula's stupid challenge that was never going to be won, Api being silly enough to fall for it, Staines absolutely horrific decision to come in off his winger to allow Best a free passage down the field, and then..... Naden, bloody hell where does one start with this:

gave away a penalty on a kick challenge, ran out (when all we needed was to complete the set and get a kick away) Passed inside to Hastings (because he was going to run out...again) lost the ball after a linebreak and finally barely got a finger on Best when defending the tryline. That is 5 clear errors from 1 player. Completely unacceptable in any grade of football.

I actually think the team is trying their heart out this year, much more than the last couple, and they are definitely trying to be more physical in defence, but psychologically it would be very deflating working your arse off only to see some brain dead actions from some players continually undermining those efforts by ill discipline.

Unfortunately now with a few injuries and suspensions creeping in, playing the high flying Dolphins last game next Sunday night, followed by a short turnaround with the Cowboys in Townsville in the first game Friday night is really going to test the mental resolve. The bye can't come soon enough.
Click to expand...
We are also hampered by the cap. We need to spend at least 95% on our guys.
The good teams don’t continually make those simple blunders because they have depth.
 
Tom Shines said:
I’ll just try to base my comments on their play this year … although arguably a lot of their issues have applied for years ..

The other team knows that they don’t have to play that well to beat us … the most important thing is that they don’t beat themselves… the Wests Tigers attack is very predictable …hence why they are averaging 12 points a game this year …

How many games you going to win scoring that many points on average ? Not many ,,, As opposition,,, provided you hang in there …don’t give them short fields … eventually the Tigers will give you opportunities to beat them … through their lack of discipline they will give you a dropped ball from a kick or a try from a defensive error out wide … normally the winger or Center rushing up and trying to take an inside man …

The tigers are also easily niggled into giving away dumb penalties … lots of easily wound up players …Naden, Klemmer, Seyfarth .. what the hell was Ice doing tripping that guy ? Could have been sent off..

Their game plan needs to be looked at… looks like at the moment they are just happy “being in the game “ and not actually actively trying to win it ….they need to start games better … come out with a more enterprising attacking style …what happens to them in the last 2 minutes of the first half ? Tries in the dying seconds against Broncos and Knights and should have conceded one against the Bulldogs … something is wrong here… they need to be aware of this and just try to play conservatively and run out the clock and get to half time ..

I could go on forever about their basic skills that appears like are never practiced … short drop outs.. defending and taking them …. attacking kicks that are rarely contested … lack of repeat sets … grubbers into the in the in goal ..these are things that can br practised and improved regardless of the talent levels of the team
Click to expand...
So are you saying we need to sack another coach?
Im neither for or against that, Benji’s MO of emotional rescue is working to some extent, but players loving him could be his weakness. They need to respect him.
Richo is turning around the queen mary here, and time will tell if he’s finally met his match in terms of the Peter principle theory.
I still think the focus should be somewhere else, rather than a dropped ball? A poor defensive read?
We have a bigger junior pool than Penrith. What are we doing with it? Why aren’t we developing harmonic motion throughout the entire organisation with succession planning based on skill level and attitude/desire?
 
twentyforty said:
So are you saying we need to sack another coach?
Im neither for or against that, Benji’s MO of emotional rescue is working to some extent, but players loving him could be his weakness. They need to respect him.
Richo is turning around the queen mary here, and time will tell if he’s finally met his match in terms of the Peter principle theory.
I still think the focus should be somewhere else, rather than a dropped ball? A poor defensive read?
We have a bigger junior pool than Penrith. What are we doing with it? Why aren’t we developing harmonic motion throughout the entire organisation with succession planning based on skill level and attitude/desire?
Click to expand...
Our pathways are still not united.
Wests side is doing most of the heavy lifting whilst Balmain teams are frankly pathetic.
Are Wests Tigers training protocols and structures taught from junior reps through to senior or are Western Suburbs and Balmain sticking their incompetent noses into it too much?
 
twentyforty said:
So are you saying we need to sack another coach?
Im neither for or against that, Benji’s MO of emotional rescue is working to some extent, but players loving him could be his weakness. They need to respect him.
Richo is turning around the queen mary here, and time will tell if he’s finally met his match in terms of the Peter principle theory.
I still think the focus should be somewhere else, rather than a dropped ball? A poor defensive read?
We have a bigger junior pool than Penrith. What are we doing with it? Why aren’t we developing harmonic motion throughout the entire organisation with succession planning based on skill level and attitude/desire?
Click to expand...

I have always said Benji needs to be given this year to find his feet …and expectations for immediate success need to be tempered .. however the modest expectations I had of them winning 7-8 games is seemingly becoming more unlikely as we move through the season

Are they improving as the season goes on? This is a worry to me … I would feel a first year coach coming off a very low base needs to be improving … they look just as lost as ever…

if things dont turn around and they collect another spoon and 4 win season,,. He will be going into next year on the hot seat,,

Richo is another matter … he better be all talk about relying soley on junior pathways … success is another 4-5 years away pursuing that avenue … Lot of pressure to keep Stef, and to sign a first grade ready winger and back rower for next year … good luck to him ..
 
Furious1 said:
Hard to argue with any of that really. Breaking the cycle is difficult. Gun players always seem to return against us. I can't help but look at a game like yesterday and think " a hamstring cost us a possible try, a bounce of a ball for Olam cost us another " and those things in general that just never seem to fall our way.

But, then i look at Bula's stupid challenge that was never going to be won, Api being silly enough to fall for it, Staines absolutely horrific decision to come in off his winger to allow Best a free passage down the field, and then..... Naden, bloody hell where does one start with this:

gave away a penalty on a kick challenge, ran out (when all we needed was to complete the set and get a kick away) Passed inside to Hastings (because he was going to run out...again) lost the ball after a linebreak and finally barely got a finger on Best when defending the tryline. That is 5 clear errors from 1 player. Completely unacceptable in any grade of football.

I actually think the team is trying their heart out this year, much more than the last couple, and they are definitely trying to be more physical in defence, but psychologically it would be very deflating working your arse off only to see some brain dead actions from some players continually undermining those efforts by ill discipline.

Unfortunately now with a few injuries and suspensions creeping in, playing the high flying Dolphins last game next Sunday night, followed by a short turnaround with the Cowboys in Townsville in the first game Friday night is really going to test the mental resolve. The bye can't come soon enough.
Click to expand...

Tom Shines said:
I’ll just try to base my comments on their play this year … although arguably a lot of their issues have applied for years ..

The other team knows that they don’t have to play that well to beat us … the most important thing is that they don’t beat themselves… the Wests Tigers attack is very predictable …hence why they are averaging 12 points a game this year …

How many games you going to win scoring that many points on average ? Not many ,,, As opposition,,, provided you hang in there …don’t give them short fields … eventually the Tigers will give you opportunities to beat them … through their lack of discipline they will give you a dropped ball from a kick or a try from a defensive error out wide … normally the winger or Center rushing up and trying to take an inside man …

The tigers are also easily niggled into giving away dumb penalties … lots of easily wound up players …Naden, Klemmer, Seyfarth .. what the hell was Ice doing tripping that guy ? Could have been sent off..

Their game plan needs to be looked at… looks like at the moment they are just happy “being in the game “ and not actually actively trying to win it ….they need to start games better … come out with a more enterprising attacking style …what happens to them in the last 2 minutes of the first half ? Tries in the dying seconds against Broncos and Knights and should have conceded one against the Bulldogs … something is wrong here… they need to be aware of this and just try to play conservatively and run out the clock and get to half time ..

I could go on forever about their basic skills that appears like are never practiced … short drop outs.. defending and taking them …. attacking kicks that are rarely contested … lack of repeat sets … grubbers into the in the in goal ..these are things that can br practised and improved regardless of the talent levels of the team
Click to expand...
At the start of the season unfortunately my hope meter was registering much higher than my expectation meter. Thought we would have had only 1 win after 9 games, so you can imagine how uplifting it is to have 2 wins. 😜
 
Aceshigh said:
Its more than a real coach mate , its a lack of real first grade skills , first grade muscle and first grade speed .Not sure if too many from our team would displace players from other teams
Click to expand...
The last sentence has been said time and time again, but also time and time again we see many of those players in the top 17 of other teams once they’ve made the switch. The players in our team are capable, but they somehow suddenly become incapable once they are in this club. I don’t understand it, it defies all logic, yet this pattern has continued for many years now.
 
The club's been dicey mentally for years now. Even during the Ninth-Every-Year period, whenever there was a crunch game that could help them qualify for the semis, they would be not just beaten, but smashed.

I think they need to focus on enjoying their footy, remembering the passion for the sport that lead them to being good enough for FG. Benji seems to be trying to do this, which he probably picked from Wayne. Benji has a great opportunity with players like Bula, Galvin and others to bring them on. For too long, players haven't improved while at the Tigers. Brooks a great example.
 
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