NOT ALL COMPUTER HACKERS ARE BAD

[alien]

British climate expert 'cheered' by Aussie's death
By Caroline Overington
The Australian
November 23, 2009 02:00am


Hackers leak climate change emails
They contain some bitter exchanges
Expert 'cheered' by death of sceptic
COMPUTER hackers have broken into Britain's leading climate science research centre, making public thousands of private emails between top climate change scientists.

The messages – more than 2000 emails and 3000 documents – lay bare bitter disagreements about the cause of climate change.

In one email, the head of Britain's Climatic Research Unit, Phil Jones, says he is "cheered" by news of the sudden death of a prominent Australian climate sceptic, John L. Daly, who died of a heart attack at his Launceston home in 2004.

Others show scientists referring to sceptical colleagues as "prats", "charlatans" and "idiots".

The emails also acknowledge the frustration of trying to find evidence to "prove" man-made climate change.

In one email, Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the US Centre for Atmospheric Research, who supports the theory of man-made climate change, says: "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment, and it is a travesty that we can't."

Jonnie Cypher of Perth Dr Trenberth says data published last August "shows there should be even more warming... the data are surely wrong".

Sceptics say the emails are evidence of a conspiracy by climate scientists to bully into submission colleagues who challenge the theory of man-made climate change.

The authors of the emails, including many who contribute to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports, say their words have been taken out of context.

The emails first appeared on an anonymous Russian server, after hackers apparently broke into the Climatic Research Unit's server at the University of East Anglia last Thursday.

They came with a note from the hacker, saying: "We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to be kept under wraps. We hereby release a random selection of correspondence."

In a statement, the university acknowledged the security breach, saying hackers had stolen its data "to undermine the strong consensus that human activity is affecting the world's climate in ways that are potentially dangerous".

The emails were leaked just weeks before the Copenhagen climate talks and just days before federal parliament considers an emissions trading scheme for Australia.

Some of the emails directly refer to the debate in Australia. In 2003, for example, Professor Jones says: "It's nice to know that our friends down under are doing their best to fight the misinformation. Is it true that the sceptics twist the truth clockwise rather than counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere?"

Another, dated July 1999, says the World Wildlife Federation Australia wants a particular section of a report on climate change "beefed up" because it is worried that section looks "conservative" when compared with the CSIRO's data.

Scientist Ben Santer is quoted as saying he would like to "talk to a few of these (sceptics) in a dark alley".

One email from Professor Jones to Michael E. Mann, director of the Earth System Science Centre at Pennsylvania State University, has as the subject line: "John L. Daly dead".

It is dated just hours after Daly collapsed from a heart attack in his home in Launceston, on January 29, 2004, shortly after doing an interview with the BBC.

The email says: "Mike, in an odd way, this is cheering news!" and it attaches the death notice placed by Daly's family. The family yesterday said they had no comment.

[alien]

oops I forgot the link

http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600 ... 01,00.html

[Juro]

Climate change is such a funny issue. If you are a skeptic, it doesn't matter what evidence is shown, you will not believe it. And likewise, if you are a believer, it doesn't matter what evidence is shown against it, you will not believe that new evidence.

The trouble is that such a small fraction of us have any clue as to what is really happening. And we constantly hear arguments on either side of the equation. Anything that people hear that doesn't suit their initial belief, they just pass it off as propaganda from the other side...

[alien]

There actually are some people that are inbetween Juro. We shouldn't be taxed or have to pay more if they can't even prove that global warming is happening, especially if it isn't caused by humans.

[Allan Towle]

Climate Change/Global Warming is a scary prospect. If we do act on it we will have to spend money that we are likely to have to use down the line anywhere when fossil fuels run out unless other sources come out. If we don't act on it, it could have a devastating effect on the future of the earth and its inhabitants. Either way its one of those issues where you should favour caution over risk.

If any country should act on climate change, it is ours. An island continent with the majority of its population on the coast in certain cities means renewable energy sources are much more effective and cheaper than pretty much any other country. I do remember a report on the use of wave energy. It was very interesting and completely renewable though I haven't heard much of it since. It worked with currents and seems if it is efficient, a great answer for this countrys energy options.

[alien]

Turnbull should change his name to Turncoat because he is betraying all Australians just like our moron Prime Minister Rudd. They are both a disgrace to our nation.

[huggarz]

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 936328.ece


A summary of some of the emails in question
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/ ... gs-33.html

[Kaiser]

There actually are some people that are inbetween Juro. We shouldn't be taxed or have to pay more if they can't even prove that global warming is happening, especially if it isn't caused by humans.

They can and we are the only country debating this. Climate Change is very much happening... I'll give you this scenario Alien... You are sick with whatever it might be and the doctor refers you to a specialist. The specialist tells you that your are sick and must act... for piece of mind you go an see an additional 19 specialists... of those 19, only 1 says you are fine and healthy...

Who do you believe? The 19 who told you to get help, or the 1 who said everything is ok?

Turnbull's comments regarding the matter were perfect imo. Even if it isn't happening, there is enough information to suggest it is and we MUST give this the benefit of the doubt.

Onto point 2... who cares if the problem is caused by humans or not... it is a problem and we need to address it our fault or not. (BTW it is our fault)

Concerning being taxed... unless you are a high income earner you will be compensated!

[Juro]

We hear figures of how much it will cost if we bring in the ETS. One thing I'd like to know is how much it will cost if we DON'T bring in the ETS. Of course, that would very much depend on how successful it would be in achieving its goals...

[alien]

It's a scam. If there was proof that global warming was happening why would those scientists throw away the data and manipulate the results. They make a theory and when the results don't back up their theory they have to change the results to fit their theory. It's like they don't want to be proved wrong. Global Warming is like a belief/religion to them. They have even changed the name to Climate Change now because they can't prove that Earth is heating up.

Kaiser, Australia is not the only country where people doubt humans are causing climate change or doubt that the Earth is heating up. THE DEBATE IS NOT OVER! Also your little 'specialist' scenerio means nothing because that's a totally different situation. There are alot of scientists that disagree humans are creating climate change but they get bullied by the other scientists. You see the scientists are funded alot of money, which wouldn't happen if human caused climate change was proved non existant.

Climate change has occured on Earth for millions of years before humans ever existed. The Earth cools down and heats up all the time. It's completly natural. We have had ice ages before humans existed. The Sun goes through cycles and it changes what happens here on Earth too. Also massive floods and volcanos have also occured before humans were on this planet. I think some people watch movies like The Day After Tommorow or 2012 and think they are real. And why should high income earners be taxed more when it is a waste of time? This is just a redistribution of income. People or countries that agree or vote for this madness are voting for GLOBAL COMMUNISM. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Australia is responsible for 1.5% of the global emmisions. Now if countries like the United States, Japan, CHINA AND INDIA don't cut down (which they aren't going to) then Australia will be wasting their time and money.

Thankfully Turncoat Turnbull is gone and we will now have a real opposition against that SCHMUCK of a Prime Minister we unfortunatly have. Hopefully the Australian population will be able to hear all about the details before the Copenhagen meeting. Why would Rudd want to rush this before the world meeting. He wants to strut on the world stage but he isn't doing what is best for Australians which is meant to be his job!

[alien]

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 936328.ece


A summary of some of the emails in question
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/ ... gs-33.html

Interesting reading huggarz. I'm just gonna cut and paste the page from that first link in here for people who can't open links properly. Interesting avatar by the way.

From The Sunday Times November 29, 2009

Climate change data dumped
Jonathan Leake, Environment Editor

SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.

In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”

The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible.

Roger Pielke, professor of environmental studies at Colorado University, discovered data had been lost when he asked for original records. “The CRU is basically saying, ‘Trust us’. So much for settling questions and resolving debates with science,” he said.

Jones was not in charge of the CRU when the data were thrown away in the 1980s, a time when climate change was seen as a less pressing issue. The lost material was used to build the databases that have been his life’s work, showing how the world has warmed by 0.8C over the past 157 years.

He and his colleagues say this temperature rise is “unequivocally” linked to greenhouse gas emissions generated by humans. Their findings are one of the main pieces of evidence used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which says global warming is a threat to humanity.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 936328.ece

[alien]

Concerning being taxed... unless you are a high income earner you will be compensated!

Everyone will also pay extra money for goods and services. Prices will be higher due to the fact that the costs of producing goods and services will be reflected in the prices of those goods and services.

[alien]

some interesting videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgIEQqLo ... re=popular

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx5SRJJm ... re=related

[huggarz]

With two prominent alarmists being forced to step down pending investigation, Al Gore cancelling his lecture in copenhagen and huge cap and trade fraud being reported currently in Denmark it's all falling apart at the seams.

Universities take action on Climategate
By THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Wednesday, December 2, 2009

The Obama administration might think Climategate is a nonevent, but on Monday, Pennsylvania State University announced it was launching an investigation into the academic conduct of Michael Mann, director of the school's Earth System Science Center. Yesterday, it was announced that Phil Jones, director of the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia, would step aside while his university conducts an investigation. With so much fraud being exposed in the academic community that studies and promotes global-warming theories, an example has to be made of someone.

There are dozens of researchers at other institutions involved in this scandal surrounding leaked e-mails that discuss covering up evidence of global cooling and destroying research that discounts global warming. For example, in the United States, the National Center for Atmospheric Research is in the thick of the e-mail chain.

Mr. Mann is front and center in the debate over what constitutes unethical research. In the current controversy, he is named in about 270 of the more than 1,000 leaked e-mails, many of which detail disturbing and improper academic behavior. On Monday, he told the Penn State student newspaper that the controversy over the leaked e-mails was simply part of a systematic smear campaign to prevent climate researchers from doing their work and that the leaks were timed to derail next week's climate summit.

The evidence suggests that his troubles were not created by a smear campaign but are the result of his own shenanigans. In an e-mail titled "IPCC & FOI" (referring to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the Freedom of Information Act), Mr. Jones wrote to Mr. Mann, asking: "Mike: Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith [Briffa] re [the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report]? Keith will do likewise. ... Can you also email Gene [Wahl] and get him to do the same? I don't have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar [Amman] to do likewise."

Although Mr. Mann acknowledges that he received this message, he claims that neither he nor anyone else actually deleted any e-mails to hide information from a Freedom of Information request on how the United Nation's IPCC report was written. His e-mail response at the time, however, is quite damning because the language makes it seem that he went along with Mr. Jones' proposed initiative to destroy evidence. Far from criticizing the request, Mr. Mann wrote back: "I'll contact Gene about this ASAP. His new email is: generwahl@yahoo.com. Talk to you later, Mike."

This disturbing willingness to participate in skullduggery is consistent with other leaked communications with Mr. Mann, including his now notorious e-mail about how "to hide the decline [in temperature]," which demolishes leftist claims that global temperatures are increasing.

Untold millions in federal funds have been granted to American academics and institutions ensnared in Climategate. Congress and the administration should be investigating the charges of destroyed documents and data as well as the general unwillingness to share data funded by taxpayers. An academic investigation is a start, but it's not enough, considering the role of many institutions in this cover-up. With so much federal money for academic research involved, trusting universities to get to the bottom of this scandal is akin to leaving a fox in charge of the henhouse.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... imategate/

[mikey]

Japan has been working towards reducing it's 1990 greenhouse gas emissions by 20 per cent by 2020 by mandating airconditioning temperatures summer and winter and working towards reducing car emissions. Most of the people I know in the country will buy a Prius or similar car because they believe it's the right thing to do for the world. Like a lot of other European countries, they take their role very seriously.

The funny thing is we never hear about how much they are doing in Australia. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist but the tv channels and papers in Australia are very good at screening out what they don want us to know. Most large industrial countries like America, China, and India are the only places that hold back such discussions because it iwll have an effect on their wealth. What I can't understand is why they don't see is that their are similar profits to be made from grenhouse energies as there are from fossil fuels.

I have a very similar viewpoint to Kaiser. Why would you risk the consequences unless you have a vested interest in not brining about change or you just want to continue your lifestyle? In my opinion, it's this 'me, me, me' thinking that creates a lot of the current social probelms we have not only in Australia but the rest of the world.

End of rant.

[alien]

It's A Climategate Christmas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQXY4tWaoI

[stryker]

It's A Climategate Christmas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQXY4tWaoI

Haha thats pretty good Alien, I've always thought that this global warming stuff is a load of BS.
I've got no vested interests and am not totally all about myself.....I just have a very good bullcrap detector. Al Gore blew it up a few years back.

[alien]

Well it should be obvious to everyone that the scientists and alarmists over exaggerate. People start to beleive it because of the movies they watch or they are easily tricked. There is proof that the Earth is not warming like they thought it was going to. They even admitted it in those leaked emails. I really don't believe humans are causing a change in the tempreture on Earth and if it is it's a very very small amount. We should be looking to cut down the pollution though because it is crap for our bodies. The ETS is NOT the way to do it. That wont make any difference. Governments around the world are trying to trick people and make them feel guilty that we are causing global warming and they are providing a solution that isn't going to fix anything. People start to believe the scientists and governments because they say it over and over again in the media and that's how they make people believe anything.